Sunday, January 16, 2005

What is going on elsewhere

Jeff at El Camino Real has some thoughts about rural life and interdependence here. I view the interdependence perhaps with a different angle as I tried to explain in the 'comments'.

Then I see the Jeff's next entry: here. I take a stronger issue with the point of view expressed in this one - which was excerpted from an article at Seattle Catholic . The author says: "But the new rite, it would seem, does not give us enough Catholic doctrine to prevent Catholics from unwittingly becoming Protestant in their thinking." Now is this why Scott Hahn, Steve Wood, Jeff Cavins, Mark Shea, etc., etc. etc. converted to Catholicism under the new rite? In fact, if you read The Lamb's Supper by Scott Hahn, you get the idea that his road to Catholicism would never begun if he had attended a Mass in Latin. It was his hearing all the scripture contained in the Mass which started him thinking that maybe Catholicism did contain the Truth.

The abuses to the Liturgy in the Novus Ordo are not the fault of the Novus Ordo, but the fault of corrupt clergy. (Yes, the English translation could be better and will be within a year or so). In fact, no matter which rite you attend, you get out of the Mass what you put in. Where incompetent or corrupt clergy have purposely hijacked or put their own personal entertainment ahead of the Sacrifice - I grant, it can be difficult to impossible to worship. I have experienced some of the worst abuses in my life. There is no excuse and it is profaning the sacred when these abuses occur. But again - this is corrupt clergy, not a watered down rite.

There have always been different charisms in Catholicism - which are complimentary. Some people (assuming the Novus Ordo is being said properly: check out St. Joseph or Good Shepard in Columbia, SC; St. Catherine's in Lancaster, SC; St. Mary's in Greenville, SC ; and Stella Maris on Sullivan's Island, SC - just to name a few) will find the Novus Ordo Liturgy in the vernacular more spiritually uplifting than the traditional rite in Latin. Others will find that the traditional rite brings them closer to God.

"The closest thing to Heaven" is THE MASS in whatever rite - because of the Eucharist! Christ is offered as the Sacrifice in reparation for our sins! He is the Bridegroom. The Mass is a preview of the Wedding Feast in Heaven! - Novus Ordo or Traditional.

Not withstanding Michael Davies analogy (may his soul rest in peace), my children were fed milk not water this morning in at St. Catherine's in Lancaster, SC.

From the small holding in Bethune...

Oremus pro invicem!


Jeff said...

Thanks for the comments, Jim. I hope to post a reply on ECR in a short time.

alicia said...

As a non-Catholic child, I attended a few Tridentine Masses and even with a missal and a friend, I was totally lost. I grew up Anglican High Church and I knew what was supposed to be happening and when but the idea that only the priest and the altar boys said the prayers was to my mind ridiculous. I used to wonder how Catholic children learned the Nicene Creed without actually reciting it during Mass, and how well anyone in the pews really participated when they were seemingly ignoring the priest and the altar and saying their rosaries during Mass.
The reform I would have liked to see would have been to keep Latin for much of the prayer, but to invite the people to pray vocally as well. Much like the use of Hebrew in Jewish ceremonies - and I also wish that the schools (secular as well as religious) had continued teaching Latin as well as modern languages.

Anonymous said...


Thanks for your comments. I see the one of the benefits of the "quiet Mass", the traditional Latin Mass as it becomes very clear that the Priest is acting in persona Christi, the intercessor between man and God. He says out loud to God the prayers in our hearts. Of course this is not the only benefit.

In the Novus Ordo - which can (but is seldom) said in Latin - should retain some Latin even in when said in the vernacular. The Credo, Gloria, Sanctus, Agnes Dei, even the Miserere and Pater N could be retained in Latin. The faithful would shortly understand what they are saying.

One of the greatest benefits I see to the Mass,and in particular the Eucharistic Prayers, being said in the vernacular is that it becomes easier to pray those prayers in your heart - with understanding - while still keeping your face on the altar (as opposed to reading out of a missal).

Of course your recommendation was actually put into practice, the "dialogue Mass" where congregation does answer the prayers of the priest along with the altar boy. I think these dialogue Masses came into being in the late 50's (?). Some of the Traditional Masses said now I believe are of these type.

I could go on. But thanks for your comments.

Jim Curley